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[Mudofale]

The day you were alive inside your mothers stomach is your birthday is not hard to figure out if you learn how to think for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfnJ1rOFK7o

This will answer your question about your corrupt gov who wants to control you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R85eo2rA70

So what your saying is that I'm actually over 3 billion years old? Because according to you, the moment of my "birth" is when I was "alive" in my mothers "stomach" which actually is incorrect... fetus don't even live near the stomach... But, following your logic that would mean that the living organism that is me today, the moment that came to be is the moment of my birth, which would mean that the first time a organism split is the day that every organism in the entire universe came to be. So, I guess ill be celebrating my 3 billionth birthday in a few months. So can I retire then? You aware that every person is alive before their egg is even fertilized? You develop afterwards, inside and outside of the womb. A women has her eggs from the day she is born until she uses them all, or loses them all through her menstrual cycle... I mean come on... 1313Jr was right, your links had nothing to do with the point you were trying to prove. All the link talked about was what your birth certificate stands for... doesn't say anything about when you actually were born... Because I have at least 15 eye witnesses in my family that can tell me or you for a fact I was born on that specific day. But, take it as you will. Continue to believe every little dribble of information someone tosses your way and blindly lead yourself into a self consuming abyss of paranoia and theories.

I could raise a kid and teach him that people are emotionless animals that kill everyone and everything that holds no value to them. That kid would grow up to be a mass murder. Why? Because I taught them that, they were brain washed since birth to believe that killing is the way of life, everyone has to kill for things to continue. Is that kid a bad person for killing people? No he is not, because he was taught a specific way and he believes a certain way because he was raised that way. No one grows up and decides to take over the world because they're bored. Something in their life conditioned them to think that way. And calling people foolish for believing what they see is just plain stupid, they were raised a certain way so they live a certain way, simple to understand but people fail to understand that every day...

[gemiwine]

[QUOTE=Mudofale;103210]So what your saying is that I'm actually over 3 billion years old? Because according to you, the moment of my "birth" is when I was "alive" in my mothers "stomach" which actually is incorrect... fetus don't even live near the stomach... But, following your logic that would mean that the living organism that is me today, the moment that came to be is the moment of my birth, which would mean that the first time a organism split is the day that every organism in the entire universe came to be. So, I guess ill be celebrating my 3 billionth birthday in a few months. So can I retire then? You aware that every person is alive before their egg is even fertilized? You develop afterwards, inside and outside of the womb. A women has her eggs from the day she is born until she uses them all, or loses them all through her menstrual cycle... I mean come on... 1313Jr was right, your links had nothing to do with the point you were trying to prove. All the link talked about was what your birth certificate stands for... doesn't say anything about when you actually were born... Because I have at least 15 eye witnesses in my family that can tell me or you for a fact I was born on that specific day. But, take it as you will. Continue to believe every little dribble of information someone tosses your way and blindly lead yourself into a self consuming abyss of paranoia and theories.

The day your mom was pregnant with you is your birthday. You were still alive before you came out the womb but man has indoctrinated everyone into believing you weren't alive into you came out the womb therefore is your birthday and you have to celebrate it without researching its satanic origins.

I could raise a kid and teach him that people are emotionless animals that kill everyone and everything that holds no value to them. That kid would grow up to be a mass murder. Why? Because I taught them that, they were brain washed since birth to believe that killing is the way of life, everyone has to kill for things to continue.

Yea so for life to continue I have to kill inosent people, kids, destroy their homes, poison their food, water and create diseases in order fo life to continue? Please provide me some evidence that makes it true to nature that killing solves all the problems of the world to make it peaceful and safer enviornment for our children and improve the economy because that sounds ignorant from being brainwashed with religion and dogma.

Is that kid a bad person for killing people? No he is not, because he was taught a specific way and he believes a certain way because he was raised that way. No one grows up and decides to take over the world because they're bored. Something in their life conditioned them to think that way. And calling people foolish for believing what they see is just plain stupid, they were raised a certain way so they live a certain way, simple to understand but people fail to understand that every day.

A kid can be taught that but it dosent mean he will do that unless he's trained physical in fighting and weapon handling to match his perception of thinking that way is what you forgot to mention but will suffer the same fatal repercussions as an assassin. That's why people hate religion ecause its similiar to brainwashing when raising a kid to become an oblivious slave.

[gemiwine]

woah woah woah, lol. i could understand you generalizing that debunking to all kinds of crap, but the crap it will debunk is only that following the same line of faulty logic. i never said your conclusion was wrong, just how you got there. that's generalizing again and i'm not going to be the one to commit ad ignorantium. this is literally the exact reason i tell you to do your own research rather than just believing what you're told. if you find something that proves ANY of your hypotheses WITHOUT using the above logic then go ahead and post it, but don't go posting shit that uses shit logic after being told that that logic is shit and expect me to believe that shit.

also, the roots of a celebration are irrelevant... the actions we take in the celebration are relevant. santa is irrelevant. the fact that early evidence of jesus showed him running around with a magic wand like dumbledore are irrelevant. we follow the customs of our culture and what those customs indicate is proper during this particular celebration is spending time with our loved ones and taking a minute to think of the needs of others rather than our own.

Lets see again no evidence from you debunking anything after I did my research that you can't debunk because you never proved to me that freemasonry is not a cult and man has been on the moon just a few examples. You follow the customs of your CULTures to spend time with your loved ones and to think of the needs of others without taking action or buying them things that they don't need. Makes sense that we have to do that once every year on a holiday but I can't debunk that actually I can see spending time with others and giving is not something you do as a culture and tradition. You do that everyday, season to season its human nature in all man & women but if its something we do on a particular occasion than it becomes a cult or CULTture made by man to follow that dehumanizes us so how can you call me a sheep if you follow man made customs of CULTures that does not indicate that it is proper based on no evidence showing that it is if you don't learn the origins of your celebrations otherwise its stupid to believe that christmas or any holiday is about sharing and giving if its roots are based on occult & pagan practices.

[Mudofale]

[QUOTE=gemiwine;103230]

So what your saying is that I'm actually over 3 billion years old? Because according to you, the moment of my "birth" is when I was "alive" in my mothers "stomach" which actually is incorrect... fetus don't even live near the stomach... But, following your logic that would mean that the living organism that is me today, the moment that came to be is the moment of my birth, which would mean that the first time a organism split is the day that every organism in the entire universe came to be. So, I guess ill be celebrating my 3 billionth birthday in a few months. So can I retire then? You aware that every person is alive before their egg is even fertilized? You develop afterwards, inside and outside of the womb. A women has her eggs from the day she is born until she uses them all, or loses them all through her menstrual cycle... I mean come on... 1313Jr was right, your links had nothing to do with the point you were trying to prove. All the link talked about was what your birth certificate stands for... doesn't say anything about when you actually were born... Because I have at least 15 eye witnesses in my family that can tell me or you for a fact I was born on that specific day. But, take it as you will. Continue to believe every little dribble of information someone tosses your way and blindly lead yourself into a self consuming abyss of paranoia and theories.

The day your mom was pregnant with you is your birthday. You were still alive before you came out the womb but man has indoctrinated everyone into believing you weren't alive into you came out the womb therefore is your birthday and you have to celebrate it without researching its satanic origins.

I could raise a kid and teach him that people are emotionless animals that kill everyone and everything that holds no value to them. That kid would grow up to be a mass murder. Why? Because I taught them that, they were brain washed since birth to believe that killing is the way of life, everyone has to kill for things to continue.

Yea so for life to continue I have to kill inosent people, kids, destroy their homes, poison their food, water and create diseases in order fo life to continue? Please provide me some evidence that makes it true to nature that killing solves all the problems of the world to make it peaceful and safer enviornment for our children and improve the economy because that sounds ignorant from being brainwashed with religion and dogma.

Is that kid a bad person for killing people? No he is not, because he was taught a specific way and he believes a certain way because he was raised that way. No one grows up and decides to take over the world because they're bored. Something in their life conditioned them to think that way. And calling people foolish for believing what they see is just plain stupid, they were raised a certain way so they live a certain way, simple to understand but people fail to understand that every day.

A kid can be taught that but it dosent mean he will do that unless he's trained physical in fighting and weapon handling to match his perception of thinking that way is what you forgot to mention but will suffer the same fatal repercussions as an assassin. That's why people hate religion ecause its similiar to brainwashing when raising a kid to become an oblivious slave.

You truely are stupid. Im sorry, I just have to say it. You literally take everything for it's literal meaning, someone could tell you they just ran 10000 miles to get to your house and you would call them a liar and slam the door in their face.

Also, a chicken isn't considered born until it comes out of it's egg. Want to know why? Because before that it is developing inside of the egg... Of course your alive before you come out of the womb. But your also alive before your egg is even fertilized. They don't consider you to being a human being until you actually develop chromosomes BECAUSE you could be anything. The only thing that separates humans and animals are about 4 chromosomes (I think, not sure, biology class feels like it was so long ago....) So they consider your BIRTH to be the day you come out of the womb, which is the same thing as a chicken coming out of an egg. Are you saying that chickens are born before they come out of the egg? Do you even understand what the word "Birth" means? It seems like you don't the way your trying to justify yourself. Starting to think I might actually be smarter then you. Well, im not stupid but, i'm thought you were at least intelligent... Guess I was wrong. I would waste more time explaining myself but I feel like you wouldn't even comprehend a taco if someone showed you how to make it...

[1313Jr.1313]

Lets see again no evidence from you debunking anything after I did my research that you can't debunk because you never proved to me that freemasonry is not a cult and man has been on the moon just a few examples. You follow the customs of your CULTures to spend time with your loved ones and to think of the needs of others without taking action or buying them things that they don't need. Makes sense that we have to do that once every year on a holiday but I can't debunk that actually I can see spending time with others and giving is not something you do as a culture and tradition. You do that everyday, season to season its human nature in all man & women but if its something we do on a particular occasion than it becomes a cult or CULTture made by man to follow that dehumanizes us so how can you call me a sheep if you follow man made customs of CULTures that does not indicate that it is proper based on no evidence showing that it is if you don't learn the origins of your celebrations otherwise its stupid to believe that christmas or any holiday is about sharing and giving if its roots are based on occult & pagan practices.

any idiot can draw links between two words... "CAN'T SPELL CULTURES WITHOUT CULT LOLOLOL"... you can't spell slaughter without laughter either... does that mean slaughter is something joyous to laugh about? now, to keep things separate for you...

1) i have proved that the logic behind your conclusions thus far has been flawed. you are saying that i haven't because you are too lazy to come up with new evidence that isn't flawed (or just can't). i've even explained in detail why what you are saying now is flawed because you are saying nothing new on the subject.

2) an act has no meaning beyond what we give it. now if you are saying that i am a sheep for following man made customs then you are a sheep for doing the same thing with your irrational skepticism... the difference is that what i do is rational. this holiday gives us an excuse and time of to dedicate to the loved ones we do not always see. if such a time didn't exist then i would never see my family that lives on the other side of the country. the roots of this holiday are irrelevant. my birthday is the celebration of the date i came out of my mother's womb. the roots being that my parents fucked 9 months or so previous does not come up on that day.

3) traditions are something that man has had since the beginning of recorded history so using the fact that they exist as evidence of cultery or anything else other than their existence is idiotic.

in conclusion, it is obvious that you're just too lazy/tired/otherwise unable to come up with a real answer to my posts so you'd look SIGNIFICANTLY better to just not respond until you can. as for mud's side? i'll let him point out how horrible your logic is for that nonsense since it's completely unrelated to what we were talking about in the first place which was the part where YOU are the sheep to be blindly believing everything that's thrown at you as long as "you're not supposed to know" about it.

[Mudofale]

in conclusion, it is obvious that you're just too lazy/tired/otherwise unable to come up with a real answer to my posts so you'd look SIGNIFICANTLY better to just not respond until you can. as for mud's side? i'll let him point out how horrible your logic is for that nonsense since it's completely unrelated to what we were talking about in the first place which was the part where YOU are the sheep to be blindly believing everything that's thrown at you as long as "you're not supposed to know" about it.

It's like my grandpa would tell me, you can teach a man all the knowledge in the world, but if he lacks common sense or logic, then he is still the dumbest person on this planet. Such wise words I try to follow to this day. Just certain things you can't teach people, just have to hope they already have it.

[gemiwine]

any idiot can draw links between two words... "CAN'T SPELL CULTURES WITHOUT CULT LOLOLOL"... you can't spell slaughter without laughter either... does that mean slaughter is something joyous to laugh about? now, to keep things separate for you...

1) i have proved that the logic behind your conclusions thus far has been flawed. you are saying that i haven't because you are too lazy to come up with new evidence that isn't flawed (or just can't). i've even explained in detail why what you are saying now is flawed because you are saying nothing new on the subject.

2) an act has no meaning beyond what we give it. now if you are saying that i am a sheep for following man made customs then you are a sheep for doing the same thing with your irrational skepticism... the difference is that what i do is rational. this holiday gives us an excuse and time of to dedicate to the loved ones we do not always see. if such a time didn't exist then i would never see my family that lives on the other side of the country. the roots of this holiday are irrelevant. my birthday is the celebration of the date i came out of my mother's womb. the roots being that my parents fucked 9 months or so previous does not come up on that day.

3) traditions are something that man has had since the beginning of recorded history so using the fact that they exist as evidence of cultery or anything else other than their existence is idiotic.

in conclusion, it is obvious that you're just too lazy/tired/otherwise unable to come up with a real answer to my posts so you'd look SIGNIFICANTLY better to just not respond until you can. as for mud's side? i'll let him point out how horrible your logic is for that nonsense since it's completely unrelated to what we were talking about in the first place which was the part where YOU are the sheep to be blindly believing everything that's thrown at you as long as "you're not supposed to know" about it.

Cult & culture have similar meaning which is why I linked them. You haven't proved anything with any evidence that's contrary to mine. Dude you never looked for any links of sources, docs or references to post on here contrary to my links as evidence to debunk the subject on martial law and Novus Ordo Seclorum. Why don't you research my bullshit then post it so I can see what I'm incorrect on instead of adopting your words alone?

Why don't you research my "irrational skeptism" and post it on here to show me how I'm a sheep following man made customs since you can never elaborate about your claims. What you do is what every other person does who dosn't knw or care about the roots of holidays the diference is that you can't prove that's its irrelavant that the origins of them don't have a cause & affect on people who celebrate it. Prove that these irrelevent holidays gives us time to fellowship with our family & friends if its roots do not pertain to that. You dnt knw why you celebrate your birthday because you don't knw the roots & history behind birthdays so if that's irrelevant then celebrating them is.

Traditions are right in the same category as cult and culture by their definitions alone if you can prove that its not otherwise and has been made by man for man to follow it.

What answer do you expect me to give you if you can't give me any evidence to show me so I can check its legitimacy.

[1313Jr.1313]

Cult & culture have similar meaning which is why I linked them.

CULT: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

CULTURE: a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations
b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time (popular culture) (southern culture)
c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization (a corporate culture focused on the bottom line)
d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic (studying the effect of computers on print culture) (changing the culture of materialism will take time — Peggy O'Mara)

similar? that's a stretch. i'm assuming miriam webster is a legitimate source for this one? they are only similar in spelling and crap like that. are they easily confused? on paper, sure, but they are not similar in definition. i'll give you one thing though, a cult is technically a TINY subsect of culture just as a man is a tiny subsect of the universe. just as man is not interchangeable with a universe, a cult is not interchangeable with a culture. what you did was not link them, but confuse them.

You haven't proved anything with any evidence that's contrary to mine. Dude you never looked for any links of sources, docs or references to post on here contrary to my links as evidence to debunk the subject on martial law and Novus Ordo Seclorum. Why don't you research my bullshit then post it so I can see what I'm incorrect on instead of adopting your words alone?

oh, i proved everything i claimed. if links are what it takes then here you go:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/reso...fallacies.aspx
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/
http://writingcenter.unc.edu/resourc...aper/fallacies
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/659/03/ this is the easiest to understand and most applicable to your crap
http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html this one is also easy to understand and equally applicable

i looked at every link you posted and every single one of them was fallacious. not almost every one, but every single one. that is evidence enough to invalidate the method your links have used to come to their conclusions. regardless of your level of dedication for these fools, not even you can agree that bad logic leads to good results. i even pointed out their flawed logic but i guess you needed a link to find out what logical fallacies were.

and if it wasn't obvious on the martial law thing, i was using YOUR links as evidence against your conclusion. look it up instead of being a sheep.

Why don't you research my "irrational skeptism" and post it on here to show me how I'm a sheep following man made customs since you can never elaborate about your claims. What you do is what every other person does who dosn't knw or care about the roots of holidays the diference is that you can't prove that's its irrelavant that the origins of them don't have a cause & affect on people who celebrate it. Prove that these irrelevent holidays gives us time to fellowship with our family & friends if its roots do not pertain to that. You dnt knw why you celebrate your birthday because you don't knw the roots & history behind birthdays so if that's irrelevant then celebrating them is.

it doesn't take research to state that attempting to objectify something that is ultimately subjective can only end in failure. just as you can not number levels of love, you can not take one person's appreciation for something and apply it as an absolute to everybody.

also, simple claims need no elaboration unless it's only for confusion purposes which is usually only the case when the simple claim is false but needs to be treated as true.

Traditions are right in the same category as cult and culture by their definitions alone if you can prove that its not otherwise and has been made by man for man to follow it.

TRADITION: cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions

the ONLY link they have is their relationship with society... either way, are you really using whether or not man made something as evidence of cult activity or something? your point has become obfuscated by contradictions... are you even still making a point?

What answer do you expect me to give you if you can't give me any evidence to show me so I can check its legitimacy.

fine, all of the links in this post. until you disprove every single one of them, every conclusion you have come to in this thread using your links is invalid.

i love when the answer is something as simple as logic.

[Mudofale]

i'll give you one thing though, a cult is technically a TINY subsect of culture just as a man is a tiny subsect of the universe. just as man is not interchangeable with a universe, a cult is not interchangeable with a culture. what you did was not link them, but confuse them.

Actually, a cult is a sub culture. Related? Not really, a culture defines a large mass of people. While a sub culture is a smaller group within a culture with specific idea's or traits. Only thing that actually connects them by word is the fact that they are apart of cultures. But thats like saying an apple is the same thing as an orange because they're both fruits... Trying to connect invisible dots with fishing wire is what hes trying to do. No one sees the connection because it doesn't really exist unless you look at it really REALLY closely and look at all aspects and magnify it as the main idea...

[1313Jr.1313]

the cult you are referring to is something more along the lines of a cult classic or a cult hit. that would be a subculture or occasionally an anticulture but this is not what he is referring to... much like read and read... very similar in definition and the same spelling, but technically different definitions (doubtful that it would come up though in that specific scenario).