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[gemiwine]

You didn't prove anything. You gave no evidence. You even failed to show me how we can be sure that the bible is the word of God. That's the only thing that I asked for: empirical evidence for the bible being true rather than some stories written by normal humans 2000 years ago. Since your entire position in this argument depends upon the authority of the bible rather than you saying anything meaningful, I think it's reasonable that you provide this one thing.

You failed to do this one very basic thing, gemiwine; ergo you lost.



Incidentally, I have not called you a single name. You being stupid is relevant because you can't even grasp how to have the discussion we're supposedly having. If you were even remotely communicating with us rather than just mindlessly spamming various stock Christian/conspiracy phrases and youtube links, your stupidity wouldn't be an issue, and I wouldn't have mentioned it.

I explained in acts & Deut what was taking place then in the OT & NT is what's taking place now about people in the occult, sacrificing humans & kids as worship to Saturn in all religions. If you can't see that's what your gov & other countries are doing today then your just as blind & stupid as me. How can you be sure the bible is Gods word? Read it yourself instead of finding unrealible sources that you heard from athiest about their feelings & views about the bible trying to turn it into a fact without evidence supporting it. Denying Gods existence & his word by making images of false Gods like the false image of Jesus for example & other pagan practices is predicted in that same false book from the OT to the NT is evidence proving its accuracy, exposing todays governments & their religion.

Romans 1:21-23, 25 KJV

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Deut 5:8, Exodus 20:4, 2 Kings 17:16, Jeremiah 16:20, 7:9, 11:12, Numbers 25:2, 1 Chronicles 16:26, 1 Cor 8:5-6, Psalms 81:9, Judges 3:7, Amos 5:26, Isaiah 44:10

http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html
http://www.mesopotamia.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html

The roman empire tryed to get rid of the bible & killed as many citizens they could who touched it but instead tricked you and the millions into believing in the lies about the bible because they counterfit the bible by making different versions of them like the ones we have today seperating the kjv to discredit it since its the most authentic of them all. This is why we have the quran & other false religious books which are just a counterfit of the bible implanted with different stories similar to the real stories of the bible. All this information is all over the net & in history. I'm not making you believe anything. I'm telling you to look it up yourself but derogating me isn't going to help your facts about me become any better.

[gemiwine]

i assumed you meant to say can't. if you meant to say can then it wouldn't have been ironic, just a terrible position to take after everything you've said thus far. either way, everything you said he is making a mistake of is something you have already messed up on. ad ignorantium. that is the one to look up. splat and effingbillgates are straight up right about this one. if you are closed minded about this stuff then that's not on us and trust me, you have opened nobody's eyes to this matter. what you are doing is not spreading the word of christ, but belittling it.

i used to be a hardcore christian as well but as penn said, nothing will generate atheism faster than reading the bible. while my faith in god remains, my faith in the bible and christianity does not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk0K1zgCDtE

So Penn turned you into a atheist? His view points were good but his evidence was poor. I refuse to believe something without investigating it with research before accepting another persons word on it. Atheism is a religion itself & leads to confusion & violence since it lacks credability & solutions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXMsXncm1X8

[1313Jr.1313]

not once have i said i was atheist. after reading the bible (before having seen that episode of bullshit mind you) i found i could no longer believe in CHRISTIANITY or most other organized religions for similar reasons. his evidence was the same bible you are using and if his evidence is bad then so is yours. if his is good then it contradicts your conclusions which would make yours bad then as well. it's really lose lose for you which indicates that you can't exactly be right when even agreeing with you means you're wrong.

regardless, reading every word of the bible is more than enough to get people to stop believing in christianity at the very least. my belief is god has no logic behind it other than faith. i understand that god can not be proved real and there is no evidence out there that supports the idea of god other than that other people have believed in god.

all you have done is make claims and provide no valid evidence. just for a second, let's assume that those vids are correct. do you really believe that they would be allowed to stay up for more than 2 seconds? the fact that the evidence is easily obtained contradicts what it is trying to prove... let alone the fact that the logic is horrible.

[gemiwine]

not once have i said i was atheist. after reading the bible (before having seen that episode of bullshit mind you) i found i could no longer believe in CHRISTIANITY or most other organized religions for similar reasons. his evidence was the same bible you are using and if his evidence is bad then so is yours. if his is good then it contradicts your conclusions which would make yours bad then as well. it's really lose lose for you which indicates that you can't exactly be right when even agreeing with you means you're wrong.

regardless, reading every word of the bible is more than enough to get people to stop believing in christianity at the very least. my belief is god has no logic behind it other than faith. i understand that god can not be proved real and there is no evidence out there that supports the idea of god other than that other people have believed in god.

all you have done is make claims and provide no valid evidence. just for a second, let's assume that those vids are correct. do you really believe that they would be allowed to stay up for more than 2 seconds? the fact that the evidence is easily obtained contradicts what it is trying to prove... let alone the fact that the logic is horrible.

I wasn't serious about questioning you about atheisim but I understand where you coming from. Christianity is just a title & was never a religion in the first place only because the catholics made it out of that from their ideas of practices to correlate to it by merging their pagan practices into christianity. Church buildings, Sunday service, praise service, church denominations, tithes, alter calling, minister of music, choir band, collection plate, nuns, confessions, prayig with beeds, praying to the dead, praying to mary, bowing to statues, heavenly images, cross symbols, excorsism, holy mary queen of heaven, praise dancing, speaking in tongues & other similar religious practices were all created by the catholic church to corrupt christianity with this deception. The bible dosent even mention these things to be practice in order to be a christian and so forth. It only mentions not to participate in these traditions but exposes religion so it makes sense today you see this kind of activity that was talked about in the bible if you do your research on it. Its the same with the different versions of the bible predicting in the NT that people will try to change the bible.

Penn failed to touch on these subjects that would come to a better understanding about the bible. At the same time its a choice to believe. Real christians never had any type of military nor monarch athority to make people believe in the true God of the bible. As far as history goes real christians were killed & persecuted for having a bible & spreading the word about christ by pagan rulers who pushed their religion of false Gods & Goddess on people through fear & intimadation but later blended in their same religious principles in christianity. The images of Jesus & mary are really Horus the sun God & Isis the Goddess of fertility.

Call it fallicous but its no coinencidence for this being predicted in the bible centuries before it happen to see it going on today for a human alone to think of this which is why it had to be inspired by God through the holy spirit working in these humans that makes it easier to understand the words in the bible. Its not my logic nor my personal opinionated ideas about this. Its all researched if you choose to look it up rather than believing me. Blaming the bible for destroying your beliefs is like blaming your parents for giving birth to you. There's no proof that an ordinary human could predict these events discussed in the bible that is happening today without any spiritual guidance from God no matter how advance science & technology is.

[Mudofale]

So we are advance enough to come up with supernatural powers on our own? Sounds like the lunatic would be you from your evolution theories that can't be proven to be true. No wonder hitler killed so many trying to make people believe that. I wonder if were just as advance as aliens then why can't we travel up to mock 5 speeds like they do? Why do witches have to summon spirits in order to use their powers? Obviously you do zero research on this stuff to know where practioners in the occult get their hidden knowledge from & why they answer to a higher power more superior & advanced then humans. So I guess in genesis 6:4 when the fallen ones made offsprings of giants from the mortal women is a bunch of nonsense but wonder why they make so many movies & series like "supernatural" "fallen" "clash of the titans" "immortals" & others that's been copyed from that same story in the bible.

Im going to stop your rant at the start of it, because clearly, like every other post, you can not read. It's not even that you don't read the post but the simple fact that I am 100% convinced you can NOT read for shit. When did I say humans were advanced? I said we are PRIMITIVE, our galaxy is like a fetus compared to some of the other galaxies that are close to us that hold life... And for some reason you find it hard to believe that for some crazy ass reason some other being in this massive universe is capable of doing things on it's own because it spent it's time to solving problems and moving forward instead of spending everyday trying to prove everyone wrong with a load of bull shit that no one will, or wants to believe? The only reason we can't move at the speed of light without turning into vapor is simply because our bodies are too frail to sustain such high velocities on this planet. If we wanted to move something at the speed of light in outer space then so be it, but we still lack the resources to move something at tremendous speeds and capable of maintaining that speed. Why do you think cars weren't invited until recently? Because people decided they needed a quicker way to get around other then horse and wagon or by foot, so they took a resource, refined it, and made a system that runs on that resource, but that resource has it's limits when it comes to speed, that is why rockets and shuttles don't use simple diesel fuels but instead they use nitrous-oxide or something of the nitrous realm (forgot the correct name, wasn't the greatest at chemistry lol). Please don't argue a point you don't even understand...

If your going to state claims that people are witches because they actually understand physic's and how things ACTUALLY work then so be it, you will still be a lunatic in my book for that exact reason. I bet im a witch because I realize these things and you don't, is that it? I've been visited by fallen angels and learned their secrets and practice it every damn day. Just aggravates me how ignorant you can be and for some reason still believe you are correct and self righteous... You have no clue whats going on in the world around you because your head is stuck in some book that won't tell you beans for anything other then how to live your life. The reason I don't believe in most religions is simply because I understand how a lot of things work and religion doesn't link up. Im not saying every religion that exist is the dumbest belief in the world, I think Buddhist have a calm way of presenting themselves to the world without trying to force everyone to think they're going to burn for eternity if you don't do exactly what they say. If a religion makes someone believe in their self to better their self and the people around them without disrupting the world, then so be it. But from what I know (was a major christian) and what I have seen, christianity seems to just be a giant hoax to get people to follow orders and people follow it blindly because they're afraid of what will happen if they don't, or they like what they hear because it makes them believe in themself. And that is why I don't devote myself 100% to religion.

Ill leave it at that for now, because you hardly even read past the first 2 lines of a post anyway so why bother even actually leaving these long paragraphs... Who knows.

[1313Jr.1313]

I wasn't serious about questioning you about atheisim but I understand where you coming from. Christianity is just a title & was never a religion in the first place only because the catholics made it out of that from their ideas of practices to correlate to it by merging their pagan practices into christianity. Church buildings, Sunday service, praise service, church denominations, tithes, alter calling, minister of music, choir band, collection plate, nuns, confessions, prayig with beeds, praying to the dead, praying to mary, bowing to statues, heavenly images, cross symbols, excorsism, holy mary queen of heaven, praise dancing, speaking in tongues & other similar religious practices were all created by the catholic church to corrupt christianity with this deception. The bible dosent even mention these things to be practice in order to be a christian and so forth. It only mentions not to participate in these traditions but exposes religion so it makes sense today you see this kind of activity that was talked about in the bible if you do your research on it. Its the same with the different versions of the bible predicting in the NT that people will try to change the bible.

Penn failed to touch on these subjects that would come to a better understanding about the bible. At the same time its a choice to believe. Real christians never had any type of military nor monarch athority to make people believe in the true God of the bible. As far as history goes real christians were killed & persecuted for having a bible & spreading the word about christ by pagan rulers who pushed their religion of false Gods & Goddess on people through fear & intimadation but later blended in their same religious principles in christianity. The images of Jesus & mary are really Horus the sun God & Isis the Goddess of fertility.

Call it fallicous but its no coinencidence for this being predicted in the bible centuries before it happen to see it going on today for a human alone to think of this which is why it had to be inspired by God through the holy spirit working in these humans that makes it easier to understand the words in the bible. Its not my logic nor my personal opinionated ideas about this. Its all researched if you choose to look it up rather than believing me. Blaming the bible for destroying your beliefs is like blaming your parents for giving birth to you. There's no proof that an ordinary human could predict these events discussed in the bible that is happening today without any spiritual guidance from God no matter how advance science & technology is.

i am going to say up front that i can not believe in the bible either. i also never said that penn was perfect in that episode, BUT given that it's only half of an hour it did a damn good job. the funny thing about predicting the end without giving specifics is that you can NEVER be proved wrong. if the end doesn't come then it just hasn't come YET and if it does then you can claim to be right. the bible teaches things that were (at least partially) not completely culture reliant which means it was meant to preach messages between different cultures. this means that it would be able to apply at any time, in any culture, with any person. that's the funny thing about ambiguity... it tends to fool people into thinking something is true when really anything so ambiguous may be true. the bible never said specifically that the american government was going to lie to its citizens and all the other crap that's going on. speaking of secret societies is pointless as they will always exist. technically speaking, this forum has a secret society consisting of the administrators and moderators who can operate behind closed doors. ambiguity allows claims to be put to a situation it wasn't meant for but where it holds true so the person who made the claim can claim to have foreseen whatever situation it happens to be true about.

let me put it this way, my previous hunch about you consisted of the following:

-male
-early twenties (21-24 or so)
-black (or half black)
-mid us red state... texas or kansas... that general area (if texas AND half black then the other half would be hispanic)
-i'd say average height... maybe a little taller but not by too much
-thin... not unhealthy but not fat by anybody's definition
-either glasses or a limp
-high school education, but either "some college" or an aa... not more than that. my guess there would be college dropout and now working or picked up a job either in or right out of high school that you've kept or transitioned from. big fish in a small sea transitioning to small fish in a big sea sort of thing.
-drive either a hand me down car suitable for one or a bike... either way it's your baby

while some of that can be generalized to a lot of people, most of it is specific enough for it to not apply to everyone. i'm not claiming i'm a god or anything, but that is an impressive amount of specific information to give out. now, how impressive would it be if it looked like this instead?

-male
-under 50 years old
-has an ancestor within 10 generations not from america
-somewhere between washington (state) and washington (dc)
-between short and tall
-between super thin and overweight
-may have had an injury sometime in your life (serious or not)
-finished elementary school... may have done more
-knows how to drive

does that apply to you? more than likely... does that apply to me? yeah... does it apply to pretty much every american under 50 on this forum? the male ones at least. this second quote is basically the bible and the american forum members are basically different times and places throughout history (and more than likely the future). THIS IS JUST VAGUE ENOUGH TO APPLY TO ALMOST ALL OF THEM just as the bible is vague enough to apply to almost all of history in almost all places. if something applies equally to all times and places, using it to support anything is like multiplying both sides of an equation by 0... you may get somewhere but you've made a critical flaw in your reasoning. that's not to say you shouldn't have faith, but the bible is not the end all be all of everything. it is an ambiguous book that can apply TO EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE FOREVER (i can even use it to prove that everything you have said thus far is false by using satan as a metaphor for you... i mean, i wouldn't... but i CAN).

[Mudofale]

Originally Posted by Ambiguous 1313Jr.1313
-male
-under 50 years old
-has an ancestor within 10 generations not from america
-somewhere between washington (state) and washington (dc)
-between short and tall
-between super thin and overweight
-may have had an injury sometime in your life (serious or not)
-finished elementary school... may have done more
-knows how to drive

You should have said between Hawaii and Washington d.c. since he likes to point out minor insignificant details that barely correlate to the subject at hand.

Also, he'll probably just say "You still haven't proven why the bible isn't true, blah blah blah blah, your just making assumptions without any proof, blah blah blah, im right until proven wrong, blah blah blah." Guess we wait for the offender to return to the scene of the crime.

[1313Jr.1313]

i also said most to cover that, lol.

[gemiwine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?1&v=Ll9...M&noredirect=1

[gemiwine]

Im going to stop your rant at the start of it, because clearly, like every other post, you can not read. It's not even that you don't read the post but the simple fact that I am 100% convinced you can NOT read for shit. When did I say humans were advanced? I said we are PRIMITIVE, our galaxy is like a fetus compared to some of the other galaxies that are close to us that hold life... And for some reason you find it hard to believe that for some crazy ass reason some other being in this massive universe is capable of doing things on it's own because it spent it's time to solving problems and moving forward instead of spending everyday trying to prove everyone wrong with a load of bull shit that no one will, or wants to believe? The only reason we can't move at the speed of light without turning into vapor is simply because our bodies are too frail to sustain such high velocities on this planet. If we wanted to move something at the speed of light in outer space then so be it, but we still lack the resources to move something at tremendous speeds and capable of maintaining that speed. Why do you think cars weren't invited until recently? Because people decided they needed a quicker way to get around other then horse and wagon or by foot, so they took a resource, refined it, and made a system that runs on that resource, but that resource has it's limits when it comes to speed, that is why rockets and shuttles don't use simple diesel fuels but instead they use nitrous-oxide or something of the nitrous realm (forgot the correct name, wasn't the greatest at chemistry lol). Please don't argue a point you don't even understand...

If your going to state claims that people are witches because they actually understand physic's and how things ACTUALLY work then so be it, you will still be a lunatic in my book for that exact reason. I bet im a witch because I realize these things and you don't, is that it? I've been visited by fallen angels and learned their secrets and practice it every damn day. Just aggravates me how ignorant you can be and for some reason still believe you are correct and self righteous... You have no clue whats going on in the world around you because your head is stuck in some book that won't tell you beans for anything other then how to live your life. The reason I don't believe in most religions is simply because I understand how a lot of things work and religion doesn't link up. Im not saying every religion that exist is the dumbest belief in the world, I think Buddhist have a calm way of presenting themselves to the world without trying to force everyone to think they're going to burn for eternity if you don't do exactly what they say. If a religion makes someone believe in their self to better their self and the people around them without disrupting the world, then so be it. But from what I know (was a major christian) and what I have seen, christianity seems to just be a giant hoax to get people to follow orders and people follow it blindly because they're afraid of what will happen if they don't, or they like what they hear because it makes them believe in themself. And that is why I don't devote myself 100% to religion.

Ill leave it at that for now, because you hardly even read past the first 2 lines of a post anyway so why bother even actually leaving these long paragraphs... Who knows.

You ought to research Wicca & look up the word rant which mainly applies to you & your responses. I'm not going to go into space shuttles, horses & the galaxy which is not what I'm talking about. I meant to say about ufos going mack 5 speeds that is evidence enough proving that the are not mortal beings like us but demons who can shapshift into anything including elements of earth, wind & fire. Makes you wonder a bit why those are the 3 main elements of witchcraft. You may not know but science has its origins in religion & religion came before the bible & christianity therefore christians never were belligerent people unlike muslims, catholics, buddist & other pagan religions. Even science has its origins of killing innosents as a means to strike fear into people hence hitler & evolution theorist. What you fail to realize is the origins of science & engineering came from the knowledge of good & evil that eve sought from the serpant as well as more advance knowledge of making weapons of war, magic, astrology, enchantment, spell casting, sorcery & other divinations by demons/fallen angels that had sex with mortal women before the flood, contrary to what you want to believe. There's plenty of occultist that admit that there superior knowledge is inspired demonic forces as well as the serpant in the bible. I'm not calling people witches because they understand physics & "how things work" as you say. Witchcraft is female sorcery dealing with demonic spirits to give them power to cast spells on people or curse them even tho some gullible people believe there's a such thing as good witchcraft when its all for evil intent.

Know one is making anybody become a christian unlike other religons that use warfare as a mean to convert people into it. See Jesuits. As well as the laws of America & the orders they want us to follow that are unfair & rigorious then the laws of the bible. You don't think the laws of a country are far more sinister to people then someone telling you will go to hell If you don't follow God? That's ridiclious especially with police brutality on a high rise that instills fear into innosent people giving them less thought about the fear of being tormented in hell. Looks like the bible has less effect on controlling people then the laws of criminal justice in courts. I suggest you do some serious research with a better open mind an discover some truth on the origins of history, science & religion before you condemn a book that's been inspired by the same people who ruled this world for centuries, before the roman empire kept it hidden from people & killed anyone who had it. What's funny is they made you & others to adopt a natural aversion to the bible to keep you dumb down by their artificial education so you can't find out how it exposes their agendas for a new world order.

As far as Saturn goes since you didn't watch the whole clip "the cult of saturn" you do realize that Saturn/Satan was worshipped in pagan religion long before the planet was discovered since NASA & telescopes weren't around. Since revelations gives us the number of the beast & says the majority of the world will worship it can't be flawed since every religion has a hexagon symbol & male/female diety like the false image of Jesus & Mary. A hexagon is a 3D cube and is in the muslim religion. You should look at this its very interesting. http://www.youtube.com/profile?=1&user=TrampleOnSnakes